"I've been having some pain in my lungs."
"My mom just found out she has cancer."
"I have a friend in ICU because of a car accident."
"My job is really stressing me out."
"My sister is back on the brownstone again."
"We're behind on our mortgage."
Get in a group of people, ask them if they have anything you can pray for, and these are the kinds of answers you will hear. There are two things I have noticed when it comes to these queries for prayer. First, when you ask someone to tell you their prayer needs, you will be surprised by how bad their lives suck. Someone can have a beautiful family, a great job, good health, and a truly blessed life; but ask them about their prayer needs and all of it goes away. There's nothing quite like times of sharing prayer requests to turn a joyful person to the most pessimistic person you have ever met. For some reason we can only see the negativity surrounding us. The second thing I have noticed is how contagious this negativity is. Ask for the prayer requests, and it may get quiet. Look around the room and watch the wheels of negativity start to turn. After a while, someone will speak up. Wait a few seconds and someone else will speak up. Wait a few more seconds and a couple more people will speak up. The next thing you know the room will erupt is prayer petitions of hopeless negativity. And if you pay very close attention, you may notice that there is a competition going on. You may notice that people begin to one-up each other: My dad is having a stint placed in an artery following his heart-attack last week. A pause and then: Well my dad just had a quadruple bypass after three heart attacks.
Why are we not taking note of what God is doing and bringing our prayer life into cooperation with what God is already doing? Why are we not offering praise for the blessings in our lives? Do we take that much for granted, or is it something more? Could it be that our values have changed?
It seems there is something in our culture that thrives on the negativity in our lives. It's almost like we think it's wrong to be blessed or wrong to be joyful. The norm is pain. Contentment is abnormal. I don't know why American culture has slipped into this expectation of negativity, but I think there must be something wrong when we make our painful circumstances into a competition of who is worse off.
Any thoughts on figuring this one out?
18 comments:
Well this is a touchy subject,Pain and suffering are neccesary in our lives, without it we have no reason for God in our lives or others.If we dont share pain we cannot relate with each other in pain.If we dont have pain than we have nothing to compare joy with.I think sometimes we create uneccasary pain and suffering in our lives by the choices we make by making selfish choices to benefit ourselves and not God,and then when we suffer for our choices, we ask God to bail us out. And when he doesnt we get angry with him like it was his fault something went wrong.Some of our choices are obviously not good ones and we end up with unwanted circumstances as a result.I think we can make better choices as a result of bad ones.These seem to be our individual learning experiences that grow us wise.But I dont think we can put ourselves in the position of judging other peoples pain and suffering as to what is a legitimate one, this would put us on the the pedestal with God in which we have no right to be.I try to pray sometimes thanking God first for the blessings he has given me and being thankful and aware that he loves me,before I ask for his hand in painful situations.I think maybe we should celebrate more of the wonderful blessings he has given us. This is far more contagious than negativety, thats what makes thankful, joyous people so attractive to negative,pesimistic people. They want it whether they admit it or not, but dont always understand why they cant find it.Jesus tells us we are to be free in him, if we are not at least at times aware of that freedom, I dont think we are following him as close as we could.We are maybe watching Jesus at a distance through binoculars to make sure he is there when we need him instead of holding his hand like a child who is just in awe to be at his side during an evening walk.Is Jesus pouring out of us? or are we sucking him dry? I think it is obvious if you just look around you, or maybe in the mirror.Thanks for letting me share again.
Good thoughts, Chris. I'd like to address three of the things you mentioned. You wrote, "Pain and suffering are neccesary in our lives, without it we have no reason for God in our lives or others." On one level I agree with you that pain is necessary in our lives, but that's the second thing I want to talk about. Let me get the first one first. I'm not convinced of your assertion that pain is the only reason for needing God. Yes, I think we are flawed, weak, fallen, and broken creatures - made beautifully in the image of God - that are a product of our fallen world. If we are to go back to the history of humanity, from a theological perspective, before the fall in Genesis 3, the first man and woman were without pain. They enjoyed a relationship with God that was intimate - a relationship that to some degree we are incapable of experiencing this side of glory. The need for God is more than an answer to pain. It is about eternal life, abundant life. There is a fulfillment to our lives, a betterment of our lives and humanity itself, that can only be experienced through joining the mission of God. To limit the need for God to the alleviation of our pain is to have a short-sighted vision of the missio dei.
Secondly though, I do think that our pain, often credited to a deterministic view of God, could be better-named a product of our own choices. I saw the new Jet Li movie a couple of nights ago - Fearless. There is a scene where Jet Li's childhood character gets in a fight with another kid. He loses miserably. When he arrives at home with a bloody face and black eyes, his mother intervenes as his father calls for the whip in order to punish his son. His mother cries, "There is no need to punish him. His wounds are enough." The kid made a stupid decision, and he had to live with his natural consequences.
Third, I am in no way advocating a "legitimizing" of who has pain and who doesn't...who's pain is justified and who's isn't. And I am in no way asserting that we should not pray for the difficult things we face in our lives. Instead, I am raising the question of the prevalence of pain, the competition of pain, and the robustness of individualized pain. It is my opinion that our culture has traded the abundant life, the fulfilled life, the eternal life that Jesus promised and gave us for something far less. I am concerned that American Christians are not living the resurrection. Instead of living as victors, we are living as victims. We have settled into a passive role while crying, "Woe is me; my life sucks worse than yours."
This is not what Jesus died and rose for. This is not the gospel. The gospel is about empowerment.
I agree with you that we need God for more than an answer to our pain.The intimate relationship full of the abundance God has for us through Jesus.This is what I was trying to say when I mentioned the child in awe holding the hand of Jesus on that evening walk.That child being us,living intimately,abundantly,eternaly in joy with him in this thing called life.But your right there is so much negativity, its like a competition sometimes to see who has the suckiest life.
no...really...mine sucks more!
Bumper sticker
[I thought my life sucked, until you pulled up.]
Ok,Ok I get it.
I don't get it. I'm still wondering why this shift has taken place. Anyone have any thoughts?
One church I attended had "prayer meeting" on Wednesday nights. Everyone would gather and we'd go over the "prayer list," which usually had about 25 names on it. One by one, we'd read the names and see if anyone had an update on that person or situation. Then, the pastor would say, "Does anyone have any additions to the prayer list?" Then we'd go through the process you mentioned with the requests generally getting worse and worse. Then we'd pray. After that, the pastor would lead a Bible study. Eventually I began to notice that I felt really lousy on Wednesday nights, even if the Bible study was uplifting. Finally figured out that the negativity during the prayer request time was bumming me out big time. I started being purposefully late just to avoid it. Sounds bad, but I couldn't deal with it. I always wondered if a kind of groupthink took over during the request time. Kinda like once the crowd started going in a negative direction we all just followed along. Not sure if that explains it or not. I will say that I am convinced that God is much more than some kind of cosmic super doctor whose only good use is healing our aches and pains.
I dont think its just our culture... I think its human nature. Thats why what Christ was doing was radically different than what the religious community was teaching.
The pharisees loved the laws and all the rules. They would walk around looking all sick because they had fasted for a few weeks, and then they would pray all these lengthy prayers about this and that, all the while wishing that things were different and hoping one day this savior guy would come and make their lives better by overthrowing the Romans thus giving Israel back its nation.
Well the savior guy did come, and nothing they thought would happen happened.
Instead they see this guy hanging out in a bar with whores and theives, and hanging around a bunch of dirty fisherman all day long. He was probably cutting up with them and laughing a lot and having a big ol time.
The pharisees said, "There's no way this guy could be the savior, he eats and drinks way to much and hangs out with a bunch of loosers, and follows none of the rules." (docs paraphrase)
I think humanity has been bummed out since day one.
And christ comes and says quit being such bums and live like this kindom thing you have been waiting for is already here.
We live our lives like they're hell, totally missing the fact that they can be heaven.
Hence what I was saying in the post that got deleted...
we need to chill the hell out and stop thinking that following rules equals happiness and salvation.
Instead we need to kill the strict religion in us that is choking out our ability to be free, like it did with the pharisees.
I think I have stayed quite long enough. But I just really wanted to gather my thoughts before my reply.
At first I was all thinking that we do this (focus on Negativity) because were (christians and nonchristians) a bunch of narcissistic assholes. (Freedom of speech... do not delete!)
Anywho, I thought it was our own personal nature, Like mentioned above. But while percolating over this thought something just did not sit well with me.
Is that the answer?
Are we just made to be narcissistic Jerks?
This is even more depressing than group prayer!
So I did what I do best and started thinking randomly about the situation, and I discovered a remarkable discovery in my prayerlife.
It seems that what I call prayer, and what I do at "Group Prayer" are 2 completly seperate actions or events in my life.
Group Prayer is this ritualistic event that I partake in and do not ever miss if we skip it. In fact, I would rather devote more time on a bible study to study rather than ritualistic prayer.
I hardly ever pray in this group settings. How many times have you (Jon, chris, shantell, etc.) actually heard me make a prayer request anyways.... like maybe 4 times a year?
But I still am socialized to partake in this event, if not for me, but for the community and the people it it. This kind of prayer is meaningless to me. I do not think that God will actually change things because I "made a prayer request" at a bible study.
If I want God to do something for me, I just tell him to. And if he doesnt listen I just kick his Butt Jacob style.
This brings me to my second point, How I pray.
Prayer to me is an action that is happening all the time. It is like commuication, Even if I am not talking, my nonverbal actions, movements, facial expressions, attire, color choices, styles... all give off a message and communicate to people around me.
I am always communicating to God, even when it is not verbal or direct.
This being said, when I do directly communicate to God, I do not merely hand over a list of complaints. I am not critiquing his creation... I am having a relationship through his creation.
Sometimes I just need a friend, and we talk. Sometimes I need a father, and I get advise. Sometimes God needs a friend, and we talk. Sometimes God needs advise, and I give him my opinion.
Yes, I am often giving my opinion to God. Sometimes rather harshly, as in a negotiation, and even in argument.
Mostly we just question each other.
Mostly.
Prayer with God, is a two person action or relationship. It is playing, and singing, and dancing.
It is not a ritual, and it is not like sending a letter (one way commuincation) hoping for a reply.
Prayer is the Reply.
Doc,
Is this an issue for humanity as a whole or just American culture for you?
Ok I have a couple of comments... I will admit that I haven't read all of the post so if this is repitition...of well.
I know that I have been to numerous churches that just seem to like to press the idea that as Christians we are going to suffer and that if we aren't suffering then we are doing something wrong...as christians we are suppose to suffer. it is frustrating though because they seem to miss the whole idea of joy. Maybe people have heard this message so much that it has been engrained in their minds that they must come up with some neg. feedback from their lives...almost as a way to prove that they are "true christians"
another thing, people that seem to always have good things to say tend to be looked down upon. I know that I really love when people give praise to God and I see God in really little things in life...BUT I know that when people are "TOO ENCOURAGING" they are looked upon as someone that is pompous or not real...like they are denying the suffering that should exist. FRUSTRATING!!!!
Also, anothing thing the beloved organized church has done has seperated prayer from praise. I know that almost every church I have attended, which is quite an impressive number, have made sure to call on requests/praises seperately. "Who has any prayer requests? ... now who has any praises?" Why is praise unaffiliated with prayer? This is just giving people a skewed perspective. Even looking in to the Bible at the Lord's prayer...Jesus praises God....HELLO ISN'T THAT SOME SORT OR IMPORTANCE...I guess not...it's just Jesus....GEEZ...OUR SOCIETY SUCKS>... sorry but it's true. Our society is so wrapped up in bitching...I mean look at me...I can't stop...it's like some sort of infectious disease. People can't seem to hold a decent conversation unless it exibits some sort of complaint. ANYWAYS, I just think that the church has done a poor job of establishing what true prayer is and by them seperating prayer and praise requests it is putting the assumption in people's minds that praise is not prayer.
Maybe we are just confused or misunderstand what suffering really is? I think we should always be suffering... and I think we always are suffering.
But my views on suffering is not a negative view at all.
I think we try to make suffering into something that it is not.
we are redefining christianity, and redefining words and ideas.
to me Breathing is suffering.
Birth is suffering.
Life is suffering.
Suffering is Joy!
Does the suffering thing echo Paul's words in Romans 5:3-5 - "Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us?" Because if that's the case, if we really are supposed to flip this thing around and find some sort of joy in our suffering, then it seems like some of the "all-smiles, make-you-want-to-puke Christianity might be right. Can that really be? I just don't see it. It doesn't seem authentic to deny the pain in our suffering. That seems like some sort of smoke screen-esque lie. But I think an appeal to Paul might be something worth checking out here? Any thoughts?
For way too many people prayer is just an act of telling God what is not right in your life, what is stressing you out, what doesn't make sense to you, what needs to be changed, and/or what would really make you happy.
Unfortunately, that is where the act stops. Make the list. Check it twice if you need to. Then move on with life.
What about the role WE play in answering others' prayers?
Someone is dealing with an illness? Someone is stressed out? Someone is struggling with a financial or spiritual or relational issue? Send a card; make and deliver a meal; give a hug; listen to their story; share a laugh; call during the week; pass on some wisdom.
Prayer is not a passive activity, and it is not just for God.
Great thought here, Scott. Way to push the conversation to a new place? I'm sure you are aware of the passage in James 2 - "Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?"
I'm wondering if praying without personally acting is the same thing. And if it is, that raises all kinds of questions about how we pray for things in our community, in our country, and around the world!
It makes sense, doesn't it? It certainly flies in the face of a dispensational "rescue us from this filth" rapturesque view of eschatology. It gives humanity a necessary role in bringing the Kingdom of God here on earth. And that makes me wonder about the place of open theism. Thanks, Scott. We're on the way to heresy = )
ok i know this is an old post but it hits a nerve I guess...stuff I have struggled with for a long time. I agree with Chris that suffering is to be looked at as joy...but does that mean we can't admit the frustration or the circumstance? Isn't that what David did? I think it is ok to be frustrated...even angry...and make sure that we are letting God know...not so that He will take it away but rather so that we are being completely honest. God calls us to be honest with him. I think the problem is that people stop at the frustration. they don't get to the perseverence part (ironic in my eyes but I'll admit I've done it numerous times) and they don't see the truth behind the suffering...that God is good and that God brings good from bad. People just bitch and then don't realize hmmm maybe that person that just got mad at my religion can in some way challenge me to know more...help me strive to control my compulsive regurgitation of truth that I half believe but want to make sure that I "win" the argument...I think it is a matter of perspective and like I always say....the heart attitude...it's ok to get mad...we are human...just don't stop there strive to chase God's heart.
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